Tony Cicero's Past Lives
A Mojack Chat with the former Saccharine Trust/Left Insane drummer from 2018.
Hey Tony, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
I was born in 1962, I’m now 56, and I have a 23 year old son. I was married for 16 years. After leaving music for several years to focus on family life, I eventually returned to music full time as a session drummer, drum teacher, mentor/producer and band leader. Some bands I worked with include Lucky 7’s, The Phantom Riders, Heartbeats, and Big River.
Where did you grow up?
I was born in Hawthorne, CA and grew up in the South Bay, around Lomita/Torrance.
How did you get into music?
Well, I actually started drumming at age 3 or 4 before I really knew anything about music, because my dad, Tony Sr., had a cool little Gretsch kit with a black diamond pearl finish set up in our living room. Although I loved the way it looked, I was too little to play them, so I started pulling pots and pans out and banging on them! Soon after I was raiding my parents record collection. Dad had an excellent selection of jazz and blues recordings; stuff like Art Blakey, Monk, Miles, Yusef Lateef, Jimmy Reed, Albert Collins, while mom had a lot of cool pop and rock stuff like Elvis, Sandy Nelson, Beatles and Them (featuring Van Morrison), later Jefferson Airplane & Doors, Melanie, and Janis.
When did you start drumming?
By the time I was 5 or 6, around 1967-68, my dad realized I needed to play drums, so he began trying to teach me how to hold the sticks and play the rudiments. Once I had learned most of the basics, he gave me the snare! Later, he gave me the whole kit, which consisted of a bass drum, snare, hi-hat and smaller ride cymbal, wood block and cowbell. No toms, but I got brushes too. Working with this basic kit and playing along with those records really helped me develop the ability to focus on songs, song structure, solid hi hat/kick/snare grooves and learning to be creative. Later I got some old Rogers toms at a garage sale, recovered them to match and added them to my kit. This is the kit used to record my first album with Saccharine Trust, “Surviving You Always”.
Tony Cicero (Left Front Row). Photo by Naomi Petersen
What was your first band?
I first played in church and then went on to try playing with my high school stage band. I got kicked out for arguing with my teacher. At the time, I didn’t consider big band music (Stan Kenton etc.) to be REAL "Jazz"!
My first band outside of school came soon after that. There was a jazz guitarist named Mike Rosso who was several years older than us, my old junior high school friend Billy Paulson on guitar/vocals, Dave Scott on bass and later, another guitarist Doug McOscar. We never had a name but we played a lot in parents garages. This band covered stuff like Doobie Bros, Jethro Tull, BTO.
It was Mike Rosso who gave me stacks of his records to listen to, including Zeppelin, Stones, The Who, Kinks, Cream, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, which really helped shape my drumming.
Shortly after that, Billy and I formed our first real band, Second Coming (named after the Alice Cooper tune) doing originals and covers at house parties.
Were you into punk rock at all when it came around, or were you more of a jazz/70's rock guy?
My first exposure to punk rock came through reading the rock magazines of the day, Circus, Hit Parader, Creem, ROCK and others. I think it was Creem that had some short articles about new music in the back pages and that included what was happening in NYC at CBGBs and also Max's Kansas City. Also lots of early pictures of bands like Ramones, Richard Hell, Dictators, Blondie, Television, and Iggy. I was already really attracted to the more raw sounding bands like MC5, Stooges, The Sonics, early Who, and The Kinks early stuff too. Oh, and Patty Smith too. So this new punk sound and attitude was kind of a natural next step. I never stopped loving all the jazz and 70’s rock though. Its funny, when I first heard Black Flag, I could hear the influence of the blues and bands like Black Sabbath/King Crimson in their sound. In my mind they were a rock band carrying on the tradition of bands like MC5 and Stooges. Heavier than other punk band both musically and lyrically. Also, as I got into more avant-garde jazz rock and artists like Miles (circa Bitches Brew), Coltrane & Monk, I could sense a connection to this new music through that approach as well.
How did you end up in Saccharine Trust?
After spending a few years (75-78) doing various garage and house party bands, I started to want to create some new original music. I was in a band called Meridian at the time which played keg parties and then finally at Gazzari's on Sunset Strip. We covered Rush, Judas Priest, Nugent, Zep, then started trying to write our own songs. Our singer Ernie Maes and I were on the same page as far as the raw energy we wanted to capture and present, but the others wanted to be more like Rush. Ernie told me there were cool punk shows going on at Alpine Village in Torrance. We went, I saw the Minutemen (who had also played my high school as The Reactionaries) and became fast friends with D. Boone, Watt & Hurley.
At one show I saw Saccharine Trust with Redd Cross, featuring Dez Cadena. Saccharine blew my mind. They had what I was looking for! I loved Jack’s vocals, and Joe Baiza reminded me of some kind of weird hybrid amalgam of John McLaughlin/Fripp/Santana. Ernie was friends with Joe and introduced us. We all started to hang out and go to shows together. Then , in the summer of 1981, Joe contacted me while they were touring with Black Flag and asked if I’d be interested in joining as Rob was leaving the band to go back to school. They sent me the Paganicons record in the mail and asked me to learn the songs.
When they got back, I auditioned at Media Art studios in Santa Monica. They didn’t have cars so I had to pick up the band and gear too. Luckily it all fit in my 65 Chevy Impala wagon! That audition was good but rough. Even though I brought my drums, I ended up playing on Robo's giant Ludwig Vistalite kit (he was already out of Black Flag and was there to rehearse Misfits tunes before joining them).
They loved my approach to the tunes and asked me to join. My first show with Saccharine Trust was a few weeks later at the Whisky with Angry Samoans and Overkill. I can also remember Henry Rollins (who was brand new to Black Flag at that point) commenting after that show that he really liked my drumming, so that was pretty cool.
Any thoughts on the albums you made with Saccharine Trust or any favorites?
First I would say just how lucky I was to get to be in a band like Saccharine Trust because we got to create songs the way we wanted to. That said, I’m not sure who we made those records for. It always seemed our audience was microscopic compared to some other SST bands. But that didn't really matter, I guess we were just writing for us and whomever might get it.
I also got to co-write new tunes from the very beginning (House, Speak) which was really fun. Joe had expressed to me he wanted to take the band in a new, kind of experimental direction. Also note at this point Earl Liberty left to join Circle Jerks and was quickly replaced by bassist Mark Hodson, so “Surviving You, Always” kind of embodies that fresh attitude, excitement and enthusiasm.
Speak from the Saccharine Trust album “Surviving You, Always” 1984 SST Records
After that it was several years before we recorded again. During that time we toured incessantly as we wrote the tunes that are on the “We Became Snakes” album. Also during this time Mark Hodson left, I pulled in bassist Bob Fitzer, and we added Steve Moss on sax as well. To me that album is the culmination of what we were trying to get to musically over those transformative years. Although Mike Watt had some ideas during recording that I didn’t relate to, like recording with no cymbals and adding them later (“the Golden Palominos did it, Tony"). I’m truly grateful Watt was trying to help us document what we had worked on for several years!
Drugstore Logic from the Saccharine Trust album “We Became Snakes” 1986 SST Records
Later, Watt joined us for the “Worldbroken” album (thanks to Joe Carducci for the idea). This was amazing and challenging in many ways, recorded live with an audience, completely improvising music set to Jack’s poems and prose.
The Worm’s Quest from the Saccharine Trust live album “Worldbroken” 1985 SST Records
Finally, we put out “Past Lives”, which covers all the incarnations of Saccharine Trust very authentically, with live board tape recordings from all of the Saccharine Trust tours. This might be my favorite now, although I do love some of the happy accidents on “Worldbroken” and Carducci's cool cover art!
The Giver Takes from the Saccharine Trust live album “Past Lives” SST Records 1989
So what happened after Saccharine Trust split up, did you go directly into Left Insane?
Yeah, pretty soon after. Some of the Left Insane tunes were already in my head during the final Saccharine Trust tour. I had wanted to do something instrumental and a bit more heavy and rockin' for quite a while at that point, wanting to kind of fuse the styles of King Crimson with Black Sabbath and Black Flag/Melvins (Left Insane actually covered Red by King Crimson in our first live shows).
How did you hook up with Paul (Radabough, Left Insane guitarist), did you know him from a different band? I can't find much info on him, so I'm curious about what he was doing prior to Left Insane?
Paul had a couple of bands before Left Insane. I met Paul through mutual friends in the South Bay music scene and he toured with Saccharine Trust as a driver and roadie on our final tour. We talked a lot about music, agreed on most things, and when I heard him play I knew he could be the right guitarist to try something like Left Insane. So together we planned to start on the project as soon as we got back to LA.
“Vista Weekend” by Left Insane from the 1989 7” on No Reality Records
You mention touring, is that something you did a fair amount of with Left Insane?
After writing a few tunes together we tried several bassists out and played a few shows in LA. But by the time our friend Warren Croft approached us to record a 7"EP we didn’t have a steady bassist. So our good friend and neighbor (our studio was a converted office space Bill Stevenson had tipped me off to, right next door to Descendents/All headquarters) Stephen Egerton, then still new to Descendents, filled in and recorded the EP with us (Left Insane on No Reality Records).
Tony with Left Insane at Anti-Club, 1989. Photographer unknown.
Eventually we found bassist Dave Gomez, signed to Nemesis/Cargo Records, thanks to Frank at Zed Record store in Long Beach, who loved Left Insane and got us connected with Cargo. Then after the release of our full length “ToolBox” in 1990, we toured with All for about four months across the US and Canada (with Darren Kulkens on bass). Sadly, we had to call it quits after that. Musical differences and personal differences and not having a bassist again didn’t help.
“Disintegration” from the Left Insane album “Tool Box”, 1990 Nemesis Records.
What about after Left Insane, what did you do next?
While we were touring in the Pacific Northwest area, I was really blown away by bands like Mudhoney, Mother Love Bone, and Soundgarden (who were former label mates on SST) and already thinking about another new band project. That ended up being a band I started with Dez Cadena called Vida. Our first bassist was Ceasar Viscarra who had played with Dez in DC3. We were included on the compilation “Our Band Could Be Your Life” covering the Minutemen's "'99”. It was a great band (this lineup featured bassist Bill Bowman) and we connected well with the desert rock bands who were playing at the time like Kyuss, and Fatso Jetson. Before Vida I also did a short lived but intense, super mainstream project called Shivertown. We tried to get a major label deal and worked on recordings with Don Dokken co-producing, but ultimately, this wasn’t for me.
Vida covering Minutemen’s “99” from the tribute comp “Our Band Could Be Your Life” 1994 Little Brother Records
While in that band, Joe Baiza contacted me to play drums with his new funky, jazz/blues group Mecolodiacs with Ralph "Rafa" Gorodetski on bass. Things were moving really slow at that point with Vida, and later they got George Hurley and Tom Trocolli involved and eventually made a record. So I joined Mecolodiacs, played local L.A. shows and eventually recorded the self titled album with the band. To this day I love that record, and it is rare for me to like anything I play on once its done!
“Spreadin’ the Malice” by Mecolodiacs from their self titled 1994 album on Enemy Records
By this time, I had decided to marry and start a family. Then after taking a shot at owning a business (picture frames) and being blessed with a son, I moved to Ventura CA where I still live. After taking a break from bands and music for a few years, I began getting the itch to play out again, so I started looking for people to jam with.
I started wanting to get back to my early music roots (jazz/blues) and remembered having talked with Dez about doing a sorta blues rock big band. Joe Baiza had worked with Eddie and Mando (Royal Crown Revue) so I had followed their progress and loved what they were doing. I also met some of the guys from Big Bad Voodoo Daddy who live here in Ventura, so I started my own version of a punk/bop/swing band called The Lucky Sevens. Swing and Rockabilly were getting a lot of attention at the time (the movie Swingers helped a lot) so we worked a lot at The Derby in Hollywood and other private parties, but never did record a full record. That band shrank as swing was gradually replaced by Salsa as the new dance/social scene, and eventually we downsized to the core trio that became The Phantom Riders with guitarist Joe Baugh and bassist Eric Montieth from the Lucky 7’s doing mostly original instrumental surf rock. We released one CD, and then we added our friend Bobby Dickson from the Deadbillys on vocals and became Big River (along the lines of Johnny Cash, Waylon, Merle). We are now in our 12th year and work a lot!
Meanwhile I started doing a lot of recording session work with local artists and studios (all styles) as well as some dvd, tv and film soundtrack work. Other bands include the Cadillac Angels (Surf/ Rockabilly), Black Love (with friends David Cotner on vocals and Sergio Segovia on bass - very sparse bass, drums & vocals). The Black Love EP was recorded and produced by Paul Roessler. I’ve also played with Dry Rot, Jeff Hershey and the Heartbeats (Soul Music Vol. 1 on Siren records), WARNING! (early, Ozzy years Sabbath tribute), and my own band Park Bench Prophets (inspired by deep love of New Orleans funk, jazz and soul who released one CD), Crooked Eye Tommy (Southern blues rock), Butterflies and Snakes, and Brilliant Machine (the return to heavy power trio with a 5 song EP).
These days I split my time between teaching drums full time at Ventura Drum School, and recording & gigging regionally with Big River and other locals. I love moving forward and have remained diverse in my playing. I also drum at several churches in my area and love doing that (not into religion, but I’m a believer).
In recent years I’ve talked with Henry about doing something but he doesn't want to do bands anymore. I was also was kicking around the idea with Chuck Dukowski of doing a trio with Joe Baiza but nothing has manifested yet. Bill Stevenson and I have reconnected which is really cool! Thanks so much for letting me share all this stuff!